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Greene County, Indiana ~ Thursday, November 20, 2008
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Please be respectful with Web comments
Posted Friday, August 29, 2008, at 2:52 PM<< Previous | Read comments | Respond | Email link | Next >>
Call it a sign of the times.
We are in an instant news around-the-clock world where news Web sites like the one this newspaper maintains -- www.gcdailyworld.com -- keep our readers abreast of the breaking news as it happens. We want our news coverage to be timely, accurate and responsible. With this changing news culture comes new challenges and ideas. News organizations are increasingly looking for ways to connect with readers and get them to invest in the news of the day, either in print or online. To that end, news outlets update Web sites with breaking stories, and some -- like www.gcdailyworld.com -- go as far as placing links at the bottom of stories that invite public comment. We appreciate the fact that our daily pageviews and number of unique visitors continues grow as more and more Greene Countians and those with Greene County ties are turning to our Web site as their No. 1 source for local news. We believe reader's comments have in part driven this increase in numbers. One challenge that is being experienced by our staff and similarly by other newspaper Web sites across the nation is how to monitor the scores of comments made by our loyal readers to stories that are posted on our Web site each day. We have to ensure each and every comment is fair, accurate, legal and ethical. This reader comment feature offered by www.gcdailyworld.com is unique and exclusive for Greene County. We know it's being utilized by our readers in increasing numbers because we see the comments coming in by the dozens every day. Newspapers have traditionally offered a forum on their editorial pages to accept letters to the editors. This newspaper has also offered to our readers a periodic feature called Sound Off where they can anonymously talk on our editorial page about any concern they might have. A Web site allowing its readers to comment on stories is just the next generation of that. Readers are empowered to comment on a story by filling out a simple form to register with the newspaper's Web site. I've talked with other editors in our company and with other newspaper staff members throughout the state. All are wondering how to best deal with the reader comments. Tom Rosenstiel, director of the Washington D.C.-based Project for Excellence in Journalism, says story comments spark community debate. "I think that's utterly in keeping with the larger purpose of journalism, which is to inspire debate," he said in a story published on the Internet. "But even people on the cutting edge of this new culture are struggling with how far they can extend that kind of open mike." To that end, many Web sites have pulled the plug on their Web site comments because the monitoring process was simply too laborious for the staffs. We've also had some problems in our monitoring and are experiencing some growing pains with the reader comments to our stories. We are learning each day and I can safely say there are far more comments that are allowed to stand than are deleted. Yes, some comments have been deleted and some comment posters, who constantly violate the stated terms of service, have been banned from our Web site. We regret doing it, but we have to insure that the rules are followed. Monitoring of all comments will continue. Readers have to remember that posting on our Web site is a privilege and not a inherent or constitutionally guaranteed right. It has nothing to do with infringing your freedom of your speech if we decide your comment is unacceptable for our Web site. Just like letters to the editor, Web site comments are at the discretion of our editors. They have to meet outlined specifications -- which are clearly written in the "Terms of Service" section at the bottom of our Web site. We ask our readers not to post obscene, profane, sexually explicit, libelous, slanderous, defamatory, harmful, threatening, illegal or knowingly false information. Also, please do not post blatant expressions of bigotry, racism or hate, material encouraging conduct that may constitute or contribute to a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability or violate any national, state or local law, regulation or authority, or any other material which our staff finds objectionable. In addition, do not use the comment section for any unlawful purposes; do not impersonate another person when you post; do not allow any other person or entity to use your identification to post; and do not post material that infringes on the copyright or other intellectual property rights of others or the privacy and publicity rights of others. In closing, we encourage our readers to continue to comment responsibly. Your opinion does matter to us. We simply ask everyone to be respectful in their comments. Please stay on topic and remember posting a comment on our Web site is a privilege.
Nick is the assistant editor for the Greene County Daily World. He can be reached by telephone at 847-4487 or 1-800-947-4487 or by e-mail at schneider.nick@gmail.com or nschneider@gcdailyworld.com Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
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Here is my opinion since it does matter...and I believe you.
I agree that posters are increasingly blunt and hateful.
Only one comment on here seems to be a variable that is hard to live up to; " any other material which our staff finds objectionable."
Could you please ask your staff, by name, to post their objections so we can oblige your request.
Thank you.
Nick, We should all be respectful of others, regardless if we're at work, driving, just hanging out, or while using a cell phone. But sometimes it's really hard (for some people) to be respectful while offering a difference of opinion, bloggers included.
I will behave with my comments.
If you would require everyone to use their real name I'm sure that alone would cut down on the not so desirable comments.
Nick:
In reading your column today, I see you are having some problems with your readership. I know this must be a very difficult and frustrating thing to put up with. However, all of the good and bad comments are your feedback and all of them are motivated by what you say. Perhaps you should examine the content of your writing and look for problems there. If you are getting such strong responses, it's probable that a great many people out there don't like what you're saying and since you have a soapbox and they don't, they likely are as frustrated as you are. I know I disagree with almost everything you say, but I would only cuss you out in person. Profanity is never desirable, but it is a part of modern life and I try to overlook it and seek motive and meaning in what people say. I personally agree with Karen Wilkes that anything worthy of being said is worth standing up for. But unfortunately many of these bloggers you have wouldn't say anything unless they could hide behind their childish 1970s CB handle names. So I really do sympathize with you, but I think you must consider the opinions of the majority of your readership if you want more good feedback. Now Nick, be professional and don't delete this because I didn't say %@&$@; not even once.
Otis J. Russell, CFPR
Switz City
Your perception about readership is way off base. Our readership both - online and in print - is growing. That's during a time when other media outlets are losing circulation and readers. We do care what our readers think, but please understand that this column/blog is my opinion.
I realize we disagree on the merits of community planning of which zoning could be a part.
I firmly believe that the majority of Greene County residents who truly understand what planning is all about will realize how important it is for our generation and generations in the future do support it.
It is not about stripping away any personal liberties as you proclaim.
It is about being prepared for change and helping to foster economic growth in our county.
The Greene County Economic Development Corporation is making strides in the right direction. Drive down to the WestGate Tech Park at Crane. Things are happening there which will benefit all of Greene County.
I guess if you and your organization feels you don't have a soapbox, then you should probably shell out a few bucks and start your own website. That's your right and your freedom.
yeah and don't be talkin jive on here either ya'll cause that be off the hook! i got a sister named mary and a brother named tom who be wanting to post up on here and i'm like the daily world be good folks they gonna let you post but don't be getting all crazy with it. gary indiana ya'll! jamal t!!!!!!
Yeah
Nick:
I'm so pleased to speak with you again. I really have no idea about your readership base and its numbers, but it was plain to see that you had some negative feedback apparently on whatever your topic was. I find you way off base though on your perception of public opinion. I think you should quit attending the meetings of the zoning proponents and get out of the office and go to 5 or 6 of the local communities and on foot, walk around and knock on about 2000 doors like we have. You will find that buy better than 90 out of 100, people know exactly what planning and zoning amount to and that are firmly opposed to it. It is equally true of the people in our adjoining counties who have already been cursed with it, that by equal or greater majority, they will tell you the same thing. As usual, the public at large is way ahead of their leaders and the small minority of zoning advocates.
I think it is unfortunate though, that like other zoning proponents that you choose to denigrate people who oppose your view by saying that they don't "truly understand" or need to be "enlightened" or "educated" about it. Let me assure you that people are not nearly as uninformed or unaware as you might think they are or wish they were. None of these people we talked to were at any of the advocate meetings you may have attended. Planning and zoning is purely and simply government control of private property, nothing more or less. If you truly want a real measurement of public opinion or if you even care, you will have to go out a find it, the way we have. This is the reason why only 3300 survey forms were sent out in a county of over 32,000 people and out of the 330 or so that were received back, the majority opposed it. This is about 9 percent of the people polled and less than 1 percent of the population. These numbers were provided by the consultants conducting the study and when the propriety of this was challenged, it was revealed that the cost of a mass mailing allowing everyone the opportunity to participate was too much. Perhaps $150,000 is not enough money to gather 32,000 opinions since they would be ignored anyway. To suggest a majority of the people favor it is ridiculous to the extreme. This reveals the true mockery of the claim that zoning is a local decision and also reveals the reason why there will never be a referendum on it, because, just as in Houston Texas, where zoning is by law voted on by the people, you would never have it, as they have always had the wisdom to never have it. These are the numerical facts, not just my beliefs, although I agree. If you want to speak from a position of knowledge and not just opinion, get out your walking shoes and go for it. For those 9 out of 10 people who read this, give us a call. Thx ojr
Otis J. Russell, Chairman
Citizens for Property Rights
notozoning@joink.com
812-659-3334
The comment you make "Planning and zoning is purely and simply government control of private property, nothing more or less." tells me you also don't really understand the whole scope and the whole reason to implement zoning. You are trying to appeal to the emotional side of the issue -- which is the easy thing to do. By not telling the whole story, it's easy to influence people to your way of thinking.
It's easy to utter the "z-word" and immediately get people to tune in because there are so many misconceptions about what zoning is really all about.
Fortunately, our elected officials recognize the importance of planning and are willing to put money into the things that will improve the county's future.
Just so you know, the majority of the Greene County Economic Development Corporation's annual allocation from the county for contracted economic development services DOES NOT come from local tax money. It is from Riverboat Gambling funds allocated to county's in the state where there are no gambling operations -- like Greene County.
It is NOT TAX MONEY.
I do get outside of the office often...and the people I talk too are in favor of some form of common sense planning. I agree and will continue to be a vocal proponent of planning because it's the right thing to do. We should have been talking about planning years ago....which, in my opinion, is the reason why we are currently struggling to 'catch up' on the economic development front.
Nick:
It has been nice speaking with you but I must close by pointing out that you are factually in error more than once.
First, as I stated earlier we have knocked on over 2000 doors recently with one very simple question. "Do you favor any sort of government land use controls or zoning anywhere in Greene County?" We do not lecture people as you do in your column about the good things promised or the evil things or try to change any minds. By a margin of more than 9 out of 10, respondents say no and quite willingly sign up with us. We do not have the luxury of time to change minds and since there are so few favoring it, it wouldn't be productive anyway. The only reason we have 1200 signed now instead of 1800 is that not all were home. I will not mention any names of people here, but I will gladly give you the name and phone number of at least one person I know who will gladly talk to you if you care to.
Second, $120,000 dollars was given to GCEDC. $60,000 of that was from property taxes out of the general county funds. This information appeared in your own paper. That's one half of the total, not a smaller portion as you stated when you said the majority was from grants. This does not count the $150,000 given from the state, which is public money from all Indiana taxpayers including Greene County residents.
Thirdly, from the mouths of your own consultants hired to conduct the planning, they plainly acknowledged that planning would require land use controls to implement the plan. More specifically, no controls would be like having a nail and no hammer. Land use management is a euphemism for zoning. They further stated that you couldn't implement zoning anywhere in the county without having it everywhere. Plainly speaking, it is all or none.
It is plain to see that the word zoning makes you squirm and its reputation is well earned. Get on the Internet and type the words zoning and opposition in Google. You get over 277,000 hits. This many people definitely have something to say.
Lastly, as I described earlier the planning surveys shortcomings, if our leaders are as inept at planning as they are at conducting a survey, Heaven help us all.
Perhaps you and I can meet over coffee sometime. Although I know our current topic is near and dear to our own hearts, I suspect many of your readers would like to move on to other more simplistic topics that interest them. Call me any time. Good night Nick.
Otis J. Russell, Chairman
Citizens for Property Rights
RR# 1 Box 140
Switz City, IN 47465
812-659-3334
notozoning@joink.com
www.notozoning.com
Otis you are fighting a losing battle to try and stop zoning. That is why this county is so far behind in times. People did the same thing when it came to I-69, but as you know all the bickering does is just delay the process. So if you disapprove of zoning I would love to purchase a piece of property next to you and build a turkey producing facility or maybe raise a few thousand head of hogs. Think about it, would you want that type of smell out your front door on a daily basis. Or maybe we put in a plant like griffin industries. Live for the future and maybe we can get some industry in the county other than crane so people dont have to drive to neighboring communities for good paying jobs.
Zoning is another way to control and socialize the populus. I agree with Otis, please join his group.
The government has no right to tell us how to use our property.
For Nutzz info, it is the right of the property owner to put up a turkey barn if they want.
If you want to keep undesirables away from your property, then buy the adjoining property.
At least we have the freedom to live and function without regulation and government taxation(permits) in our county.
If people like to be regulated, then they could move to Monroe County.
People, this is as fundamental as eliminating property taxes and the death tax.
Be brave and speak up.
After zoning comes homeowner associations (HOAs) that dictate how you maintain your home, what color you can paint it, when to cut your grass, and on and on. They even have to power to fine you and to file liens against your property if you don't comply.
Psst Otis,
Maybe your website should be close to finished before you plop it out in a signature. *(My Opinion)
It is off the main topic, but revelant to parts of the replies.
Dairyman, homeowner associations are put in place for housing subdivisions to manage the common property of the subdivision, such as playgrounds, parks, roads, etc. These are privately owned by the association in many cases, not publically, and someone has to maintain & manage them. HOA's have nothing to do with anything being discussed.
I submit this as 'Exhibit A' for all of the misinformation flying around the community by people who don't know a thing they're talking about.
Otis,
Your obsession with zoning and planning is misguided and frankly, disturbing. Zoning and planning is very, very common in the U.S. and across the state. Again, previously, I stated the benefits of zoning and based it on the fact that an adult video or magazine store can be plaved 'anywhere' in the county as it stands currently. Zoning would only allow them in a specific 'zone' category and it can be determined where those zones exist by the public. Public, as in you and me and anyone else who cares. You see, zoning is a very public process and actually has been categorized as giving property rights rather than 'a taking of property rights'. Why do I know this, I am educated in the field. You aren't.
HOA's are private and only those who buy into a residential subdivision with HOA's are under those rules. It's true that HOA can govern 'anything' and 'everything' about a home and its property including age restrictions, building materials, etc., but no legislative or executive Government entity can enforce them; only the HOA organization itself. An HOA could sue the offending property owner, but it would be a private lawsuit. A planning/zoning agency cannot legally enforce HOA rules since they are private. Why do I know this, I am educated in the field. Apparently, many have taken the 'kool-aid' of misinformation of zoning and planning.
Otis,
Your obsession with zoning and planning is misguided and frankly, disturbing. Zoning and planning is very, very common in the U.S. and across the state. Again, previously, I stated the benefits of zoning and based it on the fact that an adult video or magazine store can be placed 'anywhere' in the county as it stands currently. Zoning would only allow them in a specific 'zone' category and it can be determined where those zones exist by the public. Public, as in you and me and anyone else who cares. You see, zoning is a very public process and actually has been categorized as giving property rights rather than 'a taking of property rights'. Why do I know this, I am educated in the field. You aren't.
I wish Russell would do something productive with his time and money, rather than moan and groan about something he hasn't even attended the public meetings to find out how wrong he is about his assumptions. Yep, Otis Russell is no where to be found on the sign in sheets to these public meetings. Call and check for yourself.
Greene County Patriot Yes I understand that one could just buy the adjoing property, and yes this would curb the problem. Personally I know very few people that can afford to just buy up property at will so this theory is blasphemy. Dairyman, as the law at this moment HOA's can be established, one doesnt have to be zoned to be subjects of HOAs. Yet again we see the narrow minded that cannot accept change in this county.
Perhaps a person without vision or planning could not buy the property next to them but most people could with effort. To call it blasphemy is a poor choice of words unless you are a liberal. Then it is understood that this would be a "normal" reaction. Most, but not all, libs would rather the government tell them how to manage their lives and not give them the freedom to succeed.
I believe it is sad to know there are so many out there that need land use controls, zoning, intitlements, etc. to think they are being treated fairly. You are a product of your society, schools and your parents. If you were a legal immigrant, you would be thankful for the opportunity provided to you by this magnificant country, not a sorry person looking for an excuse why youn cannot succeed.
Jibber,
Thank you for telling us how educated you are. After reading your posts, we were beginning to wonder...
Ummm, can I address the topic of the blog here?
Seems that minermama was addressing it, including among other things why posts are allowed to go off topic, while others that are on topic that are not in favor with the editors get deleted.
I'd like to see a response to minermama's points because I've got the same concerns that she has.
Nick
This blog is doing what is supposed to do! Let people have a say about "whatever". Some folks see things one way and others see it another. That is what our country is based on. NO reason to take things personal, but some do. NO reason to make things personal but some do. I'm just glad everyone has a chance to clear the air once in a while, but they sometimes go to far. Over the years I have always found you to be fair in giving and listening to facts and opinions. You do a good job at the newspaper.
But since you seem to have opened a can of worms, let's go fishing.
I agree, disrepectful behavior should not be tolerated. Another pet peave I have is that some people post and have no idea what they are talking about. It seems they post just to post. For example, there is a person who posts from Northern Indiana who has never been to our community and doesnt know anyone here. I think he shouldnt be allowed to post. His posts arent offensive, but he just stirs the pot.
If you were my neighbor, then I would bring you tomatoes in the summer and plow your driveway in the winter.
While I would not buy your products of your hypothetical businesses, I would bet no one else would either.
We just don't think that way in my neighborhood.
Perhaps a market analysis of the neighborhood would warn you that your businesses would not succeed before you took the risk.
We don't need the government to help our businesses, but we could sure use less government and taxes to allow us to hire more employees.
I have been silently reading all the talk about zoning and am beginning to think its a great concept! I think it would be perfect for Greene County, I am sure it would help a lot!
My only concern is that we aren't doing enough. I am kinda thinking that we should go ahead and give communism a try as well. It sounds great on paper too...
Point here folks, the only reason people would push to control others is for person benefit. Root of the matter is money, thats what motivates everyone to do what they do. Thats why communism never works. If there is no motivation to work for something (money in most cases) people won't work. I think this is probably why the GCEDC and others are working so hard to control us poor folk.
Miner Mama, I'm sorry to offend you on by my comment. I guess I never thought about people taking on aliases and fake personalities for the sake of posting.
I guess I could be the person who has a comment on every issue and knows how to fix every problem. You know the type, its the person who talks to you and you just nod your head and say "Uh Huh". Its the person you see in Walmart and you browse through the diapers section so they wont see you, even though its been 20 years since you had kids.
I could be the Monday morning quarterback which points out what went wrong and why, but never had the guts to step up and do the job themselves.
I could be the person who chats online for 3 hours a night. And, due to his personality (or lack of it)in real life is a loser, but online "I AM THE MAN!"
But instead, I am Tah, I am married to Sah. Have one child, Chucka. Neighbor to Will, Holly and their Dad. I live down the road from Enoch, who lives in an underground home and makes his own arrows and collects crystals.
I'm just boring ol' me.
Some people just seem to have way too much time on their hands.
Not that it matters all that much, but I am a former Lintonian that lives in Indianapolis and I get quite a bit of entertainment from reading the comments on this site! The Indianapolis Star website has the comment feature, too, and I must say the people that speak up on there are far more rude and heartless than my beloved Greene Countians. It is wonderful to have a forum to speak your mind, so you should feel fortunate and appreciate what you get, rather than complaining about what you don't. Just keep it clean and respectful...is that asking too much?
I agree with Tah and Sah. If you're only here to make trouble, we don't want you to post on here. Greene County is a nice Christian community. We don't understand jive nor do we want it.
rember this one " for GOD so loved the WORLD", AND IF YOUR ARE A CHRISTIAN THEN YOU WILL KNOW THE REST BY HEART, AND IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSED CHRISTIAN, SOME MAY KNOW IT AS WELL. DID NOT GOD GIVE PEOPLE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT THE ABILILTY TO SPEAK DIFFERENT LANGUAGES. SO POSSIBLEY SOMEWHERE IN HISTORY WE HAD JIVE BACK THEN AND JUST THINK IT MAY NOT BE THAT NEW.MY UNDERSTANDING OF BEING A CHRISTIAN IS TO SHARE THE NEWS WITH ALL NOT JUST PEOPLE OF CERTAIN CLASS , COLOR OR ECONOMIC STANDING. JUST MAYBE GOD IS REACHING OUT TO YOU WITH SOME OF THAT JIVE AND IF YOU TURN YOUR NOSE UP AND WALK AWAY , ARE YOU NOT TURING YOUR BACK ON GOD AND THE WORLD HE LOVED SO MUCH THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. I KNOW GOD IS COLOR BLIND. SO WE MAY NOT UNDERSTAND ALL THE JIVE BUT HEY WHAT DOES IT HURT TO TRY SOMETHILNG NEW IN LIFE. REACH OUT AND TOUCH SOMEONE.
It is obvious that some people on here are disrespecting everyone who legitimately posts on here by making up fake personalities and posting nonsense posts. Enough is enough. Like my cousin Cowboy Bob used to say, "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."
Snowbunny, remember when the Cowboy, Janie, you and your husband, and Sah and I got together? What a wild night! Remember the aluminum foil? LOL ;)
I do! What a wonderful night. I've never been able to look at foil the same way ever again! It's not just for covering leftovers anymore!!