GAY MARRIAGE

That is an excellent poll. It reinforces exactly what I have been saying all along. Our country and state are right leaning. The only area in the country that has more liberals than conservatives is the District of Columbia.

However, just because a state has more conservatives, like California and Iowa, that doen't mean that voting block was energized enough to vote. The conservatives, in the last presidential election, had no choice. John McCain is not a conservative and Obaba had a political machine to get the votes.

The TEA Party will be the force that brings America back to her conservative populus. Believe me, we are energized and will vote for either party that meets our criteria.

Cow Rancher--

I wouldn't be so sure of that... Indiana did go blue this last election! :-)

Good grief, I thought this was over.

Folk's Indiana would never approve gay marriage, civil unions, or whatever. It is too far left-wing for our population.

Maybe John is right, Iowa might be the best place for them to be if they want a state that allows that function.

In the meantime, no gay marriages in Indiana.

Sorry.

But I'm telling that the only civil union that I would accept even by the government, would be no federal benifits or state benifits as given by marriage! You can't define The civil unions that I would be for! I would be for a civil union more watered down than the individual states civil unions!

I do not say that it is. Therefore you (yeti) are for civil unions.

Are we having fun yet!?!

Notgreenenative said:

That's ok Yeti. I am on your side of this debate. But you have to be quite clear in what you write here.

Yeti said:

John by me being ok with gays having "civil unions" doesn't change the fact that I think the bible says homosexuality is a sin!

-- Posted by yeti on Tue, Jun 29, 2010, at 1:50 PM

Then notgreenenative said:

I will type this real slow so maybe you can read. I am 100% against marriage of Homosexuals and marriage of homosexuals by any other name including Civil Union.

I am not trying to slit hairs I really thought you were agreeing with yeti's position. I think you can see my point.

whatsupingreenecounty I agree that glutony etc are sins! The topic here is gay marriage and I never claimed to be perfect! If you read the intire blog I admitted that I'm just a saved sinner! I'm no better than anyone else! We ALL are on the same level and have to meet at the foot of cross!

Notagreenenative I agree with you on you point! Wether a birth defect or by choice homosexuality is not sin but the sexual acts is! That's what I mean when I say homosexuality is a sin! Sorry I didn't clarify!

Yes it was caught. And again, call it anything you want, redefine it, put a bow on it, put some lipstick on it, put a dress on it. I will even reprint this article using the term "civil union" instead of marriage. I thank you for being open minded enough to agree that gays should have the right to a civil union.

Did you guys see that I also put "not the same benifits as marriage and himisexuality is still a sin"? Don't know if you caught that or not! And I said the "civil union" part earlier in the posts!

I read it for myself! I cannot believe it! it is true! Posted by yeti on Mon, Jun 28, 2010, at 4:05 PM

all he/she wanted was to call it by a different name! lol...

Many countries do not recognize "marriage" as the church does. The govt. will perform a "civil ceremony" only. The "marriage" is performed - and recognized - by the church. The church is left to define what a marriage is. This to me is a very obvious "separation of church and state." If there is a true separation of the two, then the govt. has no business defining what is, or is not, a marriage.

To me, God is the one who defines marriage. So I think it should be left to the church

-escapee

I like the idea that escapee had about the church handles marriage and the government handles civil unions or what ever you want to call it!

-Yeti

Both above passages are from several days ago. It seems Yeti announced he was fine with civil unions long ago. But it's only when you saw the verse below that you started assuming he had "changed sides". Chevygleen and John both are surprised to see Yeti switching sides. I believe they are mistaken.

If you want to have your own "civil union" that is impamented by the government that is fine!

-Yeti

I'll keep my views to myself on the civil union front because if I expressed them the next twenty to thirty comments would be blatently bashing every word I said...not making points that "discuss" my opinion in a way to try and change my mind or prove the counter point, but rather to try and absolutely discredit every word I said...more like an argument than a discussion or blog

But not the same Government benifits as marriage!

you heard it here first, yeti said:

If you want to have your own "civil union" that is impamented by the government that is fine

That is a yes for allowing same sex unions, as long as you don't call it marriage. That's good enough for me and all of the yeses. Thanks for coming on board.

Yeti... Oh dear Yeti...

I love how you make this out to be everyone attacking you for being a Christian... Well, guess what... Homosexuals have it a lot harder than you do. Why is it that I have seen so many religious people play the "victim" role?

You go on and continue to talk about tolerance. Until you are willing to allow gay marriage, you truly are not being tolerant.

Have a wonderful day. I am finished trying to understand your thoughts about gay marriage when you only use your constant one-point argument (religion). Find something other than scripture to tell me why I shouldn't be married and then I will take the time to listen. Odds are, you won't be able to because that's all you have discussed in a forum/blog that had nothing to do with religion from the first word...

Yeti--

1.) Stop using exclamation marks!!!!! I would greatly appreciate not feeling like I am being sternly talked to from someone I don't even know. It's viewed as rude and you have always done it in your posts. Please and thank you.

2.) The Bible also says to "Love thy neighbor, as thyself would want to be loved." I don't think you're doing to well at that by declining people their right to be happy. It's sad when all of this has became just a huge religious battle. Please keep your religion to yourself and do not press it upon me. I have heard enough of you telling me I will be burning for my sins. Let's have God be the decider of that and for you to stop condemning me. God wouldn't appreciate you deciding my fate for him. :)

"If gay marriage becomes legal, then being gay might become more popular in young people."

Congratulations.

You have now written the dumbest thing I've ever read.

laker34

What does illegal immigration have to do with this topic? I assumed all along that we were talking about gay citizens of the United States. Yes, gay citizens of the United States should have equal rights. Save your concern for illegals for a blog about that subject.

To all of the yes's:

If you believe homosexuals should not be denied marriage because they are people too and deserve equal rights, should illegal aliens be allowed to marry whomever they want and become citizens? Should they be allowed to walk accross the border at will? They are people too and deserve equal rights(based on the definitions many of you have given so far)...I hope that you would all disagree with our borders being patrolled.

I accept your offer say when and where

NO

pop-n0

yeti-no

laker34-no

i cuff'em- no

Cow Rancer - NO

To the above no's,

I get that you don't like the way society is going. I get that you don't like this country loosing it's value's. I get that you don't like the world loosing morality to teach our children. I think that a christian has a tougher row to hoe everyday.

I do not think that the above problems are solved by passing laws that impose those values on others. I do know one thing for sure, you cannot legislate human behavior.

I think this just may be a teaching opportunity for our children. Just maybe you could allow EVERYONE freedom of choice, even if you don't like whom they choose. While at the same time working even harder to live a christian life. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. In fact if you feel like it, feel free to invite all of us to your service. Another thing I do know for sure is we ALL could use some forgiveness.

formergc

Well said, Thank You.

great googly moogly

That was a very good comment, hasn't won my vote for yes, but very heartfelt and a few good points made.

As a homosexual bred, born and raised in the GC, I now understand why I had such a hard life discovering who I truly am and why growing up here was so difficult and depressing. There is so much animosity and hatred toward anything that is not mainstream America. I am thankful that I had the support from my family and friends who might not have agreed with my lifestyle (which was not chosen by me) but chose to not condemn me for it.

I also don't understand how my marriage with someone of the same gender affects others who are not directly involved in my daily life. Please clue me in because I still haven't discovered that answer through the reading of 42 pages of the ongoing battle of religious beliefs and such.

Yes, some might say that God states that homosexuality is a sin. Others might not agree with that statement. As for me, I believe that God will decide what fate I have in the afterlife and no one else should be condemning me for the decisions that I am making. Yes, you might believe that my lifestyle is a sin, but you blasting verse after verse after verse from the Bible at me is not going to change who I truly am. I believe that being fake is a sin which would make me just as much of a sinner.

As for marriage between a man and woman, I understand that there might be a sacred meaning. I am fine with not being able to get married. Marriage is just a terminology that people are using anyway. Everyone is getting hung up on this one simple word, "Marriage." If you feel it is necessary to have a different term, feel free to come up with a name for it. I will be satisfied with whatever name you come up with. I would be fine if you said after our "ceremony," I now pronounce you partner and partner. I don't even need the names involved with "marriage" such as "husband and/or wife." Feel free to keep those terms for your own personal use. I am proud of who I am as a person and I won't be afraid to let you know if you ever ask me. All I would like is for the same decency and respect that I give you. I do not go around protesting your marriages. I do not go around protesting that heterosexuals should be condemned for things that they do. I let you live your life the way you want to live it and I think you should allow me to live my life as I see fit.

To anyone who believes I chose to be homosexual, I want to pose this question to you. When did you choose to become heterosexual? I doubt I will be able to get a clear answer on this because I don't think you ever chose. You might have chose who you ended up being married to, but you are not able to choose who you are attracted to. You can claim that I chose to be this way, but you will never know. You have never been in my shoes and be happy you are not in my shoes. You don't get the daily discriminations that I have to deal with. I have no legality when I get fired from my job because I am a homosexual... I have no legality whenever I try to rent an apartment and can be declined on the basis of being a homosexual... I have no right to see my partner on his/her deathbed if his/her family does not want me in the room... When my partner dies, I have to prove what my belongings are and the government takes what I can't prove and gives it to his/her family (this is the case without a will)... I am allowed to be discriminated in every which way without any legal repercussions. Count your blessings that your life is not like mine. Don't get me wrong, I would never trade my life for a different one. I am who God wants me to be.

Now for the original blog purpose, I support gay marriage 100%. I don't care if you change the name of the term, but as an American Citizen, I am supposed to not be denied certain unalienable rights. And one of these rights is that all men are created equal. Whatever term you use, I would just expect that homosexuals (including myself) and heterosexuals (not including myself) would have the exact same benefits.

I am fine with you disagreeing with my lifestyle, but I don't agree with how you are deciding my future happiness. I would never deny someone the right to love another person. That is neither my place nor my business. Which concludes that my future partner is none of your business either... What are you really worried about? That my house will be better decorated than yours? That my success could be better than yours? That two people in love just happen to be the same sex? I am happy you have found love and are permitted to spend the rest of your life with them (if you so choose) Now I ask you are willing to push passed your prejudices and moral standings and allow me to at least live life happily with the love of my life before I am "condemned."

Oh, and as I once heard recently... Remember this, "Gay is the new Black." One day we will succeed. And that day will be a joyous one! Well, of course... That is if the world doesn't end in 2012...

laker34 said:

When women gained the right to vote, the domino effect led to many more rights, which was a great thing in my mind

She meant:

When women gained the right to vote, the domino effect led to many more rights, which was a great thing in my mind, unless These women choose a partner that I do not approve of, then they should have less rights.

laker34 kinda makes me feel sorry for her kids. It's kinda sad that our laws change who her kids love. Just think if gays are allowed to marry, then her children would be gay and she would have to stop loving them, that would be sad.

Oh and also to the point of them just wanting to be the center of attention. I guess that logic would apply to the blacks when they wanted to vote, or the women that wanted to vote, boy don't ya hate it when folks make a stink just to be the center of attention. WOW

John, add your response to the list if you have made a decision and are prepared to stand by it.

I may be very young and have not gained the wisdom that we all call old age, but I feel that a great percent of those who support gay marriage and those gays which want to obtain marriage are not merely looking to get the law passed because they feel it is right as much as they just want to cause a stir. Many just want to disrupt the flow of things and become the center of attention.

Think of a little boy and his younger brother. The older one has a toy and the little one wants that toy so bad that he cries and causes a scene. The parents force the older child to move on to another toy and give the toy to the younger one. He plays with it for two minutes then drops it and begins to whine because he wants the next toy that the older one has. He doesn't want the toy. He just wants to cause unrest with the older brother. Don't pass a law because a bunch of little kids want to cause unrest with everyone else.

Gaining the title of marriage really doesn't mean much in these days and I believe only a small percentage of gays ACTUALLY feel like they are missing out because they can't get married. I thought that most gays would actually like to quietly live out their lifestyle the way they choose without facing persecution. What happens to the gay couple in the neighborhood that few people really know are gay shows up in the to be married section of the newspaper? All the neighborhood kids(and perhaps even some of the less mature adults) instantly target them for persecution.

So I guess in a way I could argue that it would be in their best interest NOT to get married.

Also, to all of you who responded yes, think about this. If gay marriage becomes legal, then being gay might become more popular in young people. Are all of you on the list OK with your sons and daughters coming home one day claiming to be a homosexual and wanting their homosexual partner to come over for dinner? It is one thing to say that it should be legal because of equal rights, it is another thing entirely when the legality of gay marriage hits home.

Well said pop. I think the new testament is quite clear on women speaking in the church, and it is not followed by most. The new testament is quite clear on homosexuality. I agree this can be argued both ways. I would ask all on both sides to realize this. I think the biblical reasoning is no better a reason any more than the: well they will want to marry a goat. It really boils down to me a simple question: Do I feel it is right to force others to live by my rules of morality, no matter where I get them from. Yeti has clearly said:

Okay John, no It shouldn't be legal! Why? Because I want my morality to be legislated and not theirs, Beacause someones morality will be legislated and I don't want it to be theirs!

I truly appreciate his not dancing around a lot of who shot John. I take the other side and feel that morality should not be imposed on others and that all men should be treated equal.

I was going to leave this slavery issue alone because it is just bait to get blasted by those that like to take things out of context, but hey I will have some fun with it. First there are things in the Bible that are descriptive and are relevant to the times, culture and places of the period it was written in. It does not necessarily mean they are to be taken literally today. Threre are things in the Levitical law that were relevant to the Israelites during that time but not meant for us today.

There are also things that are prescriptive which are meant for us to live by. Because I believe in 2 Timothy 3:16 I believe that all scripture is useful and will be revealed to us through prayer and time spent studying. Simply taking a verse that has been picked out of the air on a search engine doesn't mean a whole lot if you haven't answered the who, what, where, why of the verse(s).

I do not believe in slavery and I do not believe in women as second class citizens although I do believe there are guidelines for their roles within the church just as there are for men.

We are all slaves to something. We all have a master. Mine happens to be God. For some it is their own pleasures and desires. It is a payment book for the new sportscar etc.... I think I was plain in my earlier comments but I will repeat. I do not hate gay people and I do not think that in God's eyes the sin of homosexuality is any different than any other sin and I fail on many fronts. However, I cannot affirm a sin that I believe goes against what I believe to be God's prescriptive instruction in the Bible. I cannot say it is okay to go out and get drunk and party when I know it goes against my beliefs. I can't say you deserves to be happy so it is okay to sleep around on your spouse. We all fail, but I do my best to not deliberately go against something that I believe is God's instruction on how to live.

Anyone that stands on the Bible and wants to get into a shouting match, verbal or otherwise, over this issue and many others is missing the entire point of the Bible. God's word needs no debate. You either believe it or you don't. Your choice. If a non believer is right then I guess I am going to be a rotting corpse that will end up as dust and will soon be forgotten. However, if God's word is correct, where does that leave those that choose not to believe?

Yes for me as well.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how Biblical slavery was "voluntary" and somehow that means it was ok.

john i think ur next topic should be about the imigration in the usa and i think ur blogs are awsome keep up the good work !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

pop-n0

yeti-no

chevyglenn-yes

masonjim49-yes

robturpin-yes

laker34-no

whatsupingreenecounty-yes

i cuff'em- no

greene county mom-yes

wotownboy - YES

Globe&Anchor:

The difference if they are married is that instead of their employer/government giving just them benefits, now the employer/governemnt has to give them the same "family" benefits as to folks who are considered married today. With what these benefits cost, there can be CONSIDERABLE financial gain to a gay couple that can claim to be married.

Gay marriage does incite some interest, but I do need a bit of clarification when the bible thumpin' is thrown into the debate. What does one's gay status have to do with social security and medicare, married or not. Gay singles can draw social security can't they? And they are medicare elgible are they not? Then what is the difference if they are married? Government benefit arguments are as invalid as they come. Those who say the bible is not written by men then produce the 1st. Edition and we will compare God's word with the latest human variation. I'd dare to suggest that changes would shock the majority of us. And what if the gay marriage applicants are atheist, agnostic, buddhist, or hindu? Why should the christian bible enter into the debate in their case?

I too would like to thank COW RANCHER. it helped me greatly when he said:"I said some things earlier in this blog that I didn't care about "gay marriage" as long as the married folks didn't take the entitlements of social security, health benefits, etc." Just knowing that he could be for gay marriage even if just for one day, let me know that I was for it forever. If a tea party conservative can be on both sides of the fence it made my decision much easier.

rob turpin,

You were wrong on several things before you turned on your computer. I am new to blogging but old to telling the truth and standing true to my convictions. I'm not sure who all those guys are (but have an idea what you are insinuating)that you mentioned but I bet if I googled them they are closer to your ilk than I am.

If I've said anything even close to "hate speech" , then I apologize. If anything, I have emphasized the fact that we all have souls that are equal. God loves each soul. God hates ALL of our sins. God has given us a Holy Spirit as a comforter. God talks to us through the Bible. We talk to God through prayer. I have prayed for you (personally) and me since you wrote your entry. Will you accept my apology and forgive me if I've offended you?

question?,

Well said!

All others who have made blog entries, if you can fall on one side of the issue or the other, then several of us are interested where you will put yourself on the copy/paste list (including John).

Laker34,

Thank you,

that is exactly what I wanted to see. Unlike our president while he was serving in Congress, we don't have to be cowards and just vote present. It appears that we all have an opinion and it would be nice to see it rectified before this blog is closed.

Well, it's time to cut hay. Pray for no rain for two days!

GO MEAT!

John,

It comes down to personal freedoms versus big brother dictation. I think it best to allow it, but to keep educating that it is not per Christian teaching. Let's face it, not allowing gay marriage hasn't stopped the gay activity, which is what is addressed in the bible. No sense getting fired up over a symptom when we let the root cause go along like we have.

I've been a US citizen for 50 years now, and have seen changes over the last half-century.

When I was a child, back in the 60s, this was a "Christian" country. All of our leaders had Christian roots, and as such, a common basis for making decisions such as whether to allow things such as gays to marry. They (we) may not have always gotten things right, even by God's judgement, but at least there was a common what is right/what is wrong framework from which to make decisions from. Of course that didn't stop folks from arguing things like civil rights, Vietnam, and other hot topics of the day, but at least there was some common decisional foundation.

Today, I would not call our country "Christian". It seems as if in many parts of the country, non-Christian point of views are more accepted than Christian ones. Because of this, we no longer have, or at least accept, any religous-based guidance toward what is right or wrong when making policy and/or laws.

I salute my fellow Christians who feel it is necessary to publicly come out against gay marriage. The bible has clear references regarding gay and other activities which our society/country is embracing more and more every day. Our Country was founded by Christians desiring religous freedom who did not want anyone telling them what to believe. The Constitution written by the founders did not dictate any particular religous creed outside of acknowledgement that there was a God. Therefore even though as a Christian I see value in promoting our values towards my fellow citizens, I also realize that christianity-based morals are not the "gold standard" for this country as they once were.

This debate highlights the frustrations felt by many Christians who recognize that this country, which once based its laws around their moral foundations, now has a populist foundation, which is straying farther and farther from the Christian foundation. It used to be that staying within the bounds of the law also kept one within the moral Christian bounds. Today more and more Christians are living in a society which is much more free to pursue "pleasures" which the Christians feel they need to separate themselves from. A long-term effect of this will likely be more fractured communities along various moral foundations: Christian, Muslim, whatever seems right to me, etc. What was once a melting pot where the immigrants tried to assimilate into the country's culture is becoming a picture of the past.

Question: "Do you believe gay marriage should be legal?"

cow rancher NO

POP---NO

Yeti = NO

Chevygleen - YES

masonjim49 - YES

robturpin - YES

laker34 - No

I think that may be what you were looking for when you said to utilize copy and paste cow rancher

GCC- No, but it is still complicated. I have a hard time justifying the fact that I don't openly protest common law marriages. I would vote for or abstain from voting on something that gives gays the same rights as common law heterosexuals.

They slavery in the bible is more like indentured servants. A poor man came from England(or other places) by being a servant for 7 years. Georgia was even started as a debtors colony(apparently not paying your bills is nothing new). Slavery before and after the Bible's account was simply the losers of a battle or war. The United States has to bear much of the burden of isolating one group of people for no other reason than the color of their skin.

The Constitution was not based on the Ten Commandments. It was based on many of the Renaissance writers. Many believed God was simply a creator...not a living God that does works within lives daily. Man was the center of their writings. Most were openly defying the centuries of Roman Catholic dominance over everything.

Yes, gay marriage should be legal.

This is why I'm done! I answer a question that is asked of me then am accused of not answering the right question in the right way! One last thing, of course I'm not for the slavery that our nation participated in and I'm for woman speaking in church! Your assumtions Of me are absurd!

My offer still stands:

To the last two of you who posted, I've asked several question on this blog and nobody has answered any of them! John refused to answer the ones I posted directly to him! With your logic I guess i'm Really right!

-- Posted by yeti on Mon, Jun 21, 2010, at 8:38 PM

I will answer any questions you ask if you will do the same for me? Deal

-- Posted by johnpaulcoleman on Mon, Jun 21, 2010, at 8:39 PM

I really would like to hear an open honest discussion of how you decide which of the bibles rules/laws/guidelines to use to shape/guide/make our laws. I think even you would agree that some of them are not followed and some are.

yeti you have avoided the question again by defining our kind of slavery and the bibles kind. The question is simple do you condone/think it should be legal to have the same kind of slavery/human ownership/rights or however you want to define it that the bible had?

Do you think it should be against the law to commit adultery? I would really like to here you discuss who and why the bible should and should not be used to guide our laws. should it be followed all the time, some of the time, just when when feel like it? You are the one talking about drawing lines, tell me how to draw it with respect to using the bible to guide our laws.

Masonjim49, I was accussed of copping out of not answering any questions and someone asked m about slavery and women in the bible and I answered one of those question and it'S still not good enough! It does deal with gay marriage because they were trying to say that I would have to support slavery because the bible supports it! And I just answered the question explaining that the bible doesn't condone it! Read the earlier posts if you don't know what's going on! I knew it wouldn't be good enough for you!

Clarification = slavery then was "not " based on race! Sorry I left th word NOT out!

My libertarian friend told me that the government should not decide whether it is a marriage or not. Civil authorities should only grant licenses for civil unions and then file civil union contracts which grant couples certain rights and privileges, whether gay or straight.

Then, the couple involved, may sanctify the marriage at a church of their choice. If gay, they probably wouldn't choose Cow Rancher's congregation ...

Either way, they would still retain all their civil rights, whether the church involved blessed the union or not.

I have no problem with this view.

YES

I also realized that when yeti's bluff was called by johnpaulcoleman to answer any and all questions and he backed out. That told me how strong he felt about his position.

Yeti = NO

I don't have a yes/no answer.

We've had marriages, and something called common-law marriages, which resulted after a suitable co-habitation and mingling of financial interests. For my answer, gay marriage should be a form of common-law marriage, carry all legal advantages currently covered under common-law marriage, but remain outside of the definition of traditional marriage just as common-law marriage has for a long time.

Let's face it, society today doesn't care who's sleeping with who as long as it is consenting adults, or even near adults. Concern regarding marriage between consenting adults in society today are pretty well represented by cow rancher's position.

I'd say to one of yeti's early questions about what is next, legalized polygamy would seem to be it. There's been a show on HBO about a polygamist family(ies), and quite a history of polygamy in the US. And finally, compared to homosexuality, the bible's stance on polygamy is quite liberal compared to laws covering polygamy in the US.

John, if you didn't know where this was going to go before you wrote it then a clown nose might be appropriate. j/k I think it is a good article and for the most part some very good dialogue. But in your words.."I'm done". Have a good week.

.. and now comes the stock option. I saw them placing a bronze statue you in front of the GCDW today.

so when you have a civil union how is that? is it a ceremony, or is it just paperwork thru a courthouse I'm not familiar with what you speak of, please, enlighten

Pop, I beleive the reason they would want to take part in such a ceremony one is for monetary reasons another is to show their commitment to others, peers, and family.

elynn66 can mutes be married? They communicate through hand motions which some understand, such as their spouse, and others such as me do not understand. My spider and I communicate through our hearts and she is willing to marry me and love me as long as we both shall live. Although I believe she plans to eat me.

Well all you need to do is change the constitution to give animals rights.

It could be the phrase "what God has joined together, let no man put asunder" that makes one think that marriage is a religous act (Matthew 19:6b). Hmmmmm ya think?

wow, this is alot to take in! Very interesting topic JohnPaulColeman, I'll read some more and get back with you... maybe, just deponds on if I feel like my opinion is also needed, it looks like there are alot who feel their opinions were needed. so I would about bet I will be back to post mine too....

Yeti---My last comment yesterday about taking Scripture out of context was not addressed to you because I don't believe that you quoted any scriptures in your post. It was a general comment.

To address a statement that Elynn66 made. I would still love my kids if they "came out of the closet". As a parent I am not sure what my child could do that would make me not love them. Having said that though, I do not have to affirm the choices they make or how they live their life. If they choose to do Meth or rob a bank I will still love them, but I will not affirm their choices and there will be consequences for their decsions. There was someone on here that posted that God is love. That is correct in context. You can't disregard the other part of His love though which is the discipline and punsishment. Sin is what will separates us from the love of God if we do not accept Jesus. You can't simply say that God is love without accepting the fact that God will also punish those that do not accept Jesus. You can't have one without the other.

Although Yeti didn't ask me the question I believe I answered it in an earlier post, but since he didn't like my answers he must have missed it. Someone will draw the line and it will be all of us. Where that line ends up will be based on how we vote and how the elected officials interpret the constitution when they make the laws. I can guarantee one thing...None of us will be happy where it ends up because wherever it ends up being it will fall somewhere in the middle and that will not be good enough for the far right and far left.

Although, this discussion has been interesting, I wonder how much good could be accomplished in our world if we spent as much time, with this much passion working on something that would change the lives of people. There are many good causes and needs out there and maybe we need to refocus.

to all those that are worried about gay marriage being forced on you, i can say with 100% confidence that none of you will get forced into a gay marriage!

Regarding the straw-man argument about bestiality and pedophilia, if you don't see the difference between those and homosexuality, you are blind

pedophilic relationship - adult preying on young impressionable people (victims)

animal relationship - human preying on animal that cannot speak for itself (victims)

homosexual relationship - two consenting adults that love and care for each other

the first two consist of one adult and one or more victims. the second consists of two adults

heterosexual relationship - two consenting adults that love and care for each other.

see any similarities here?

...How bout those Cubs

Couple things stood out over the last....well few minutes of catching up on this blog.

This country was founded by Christians, but most of them had varying views on God, and most were very leary of any religion in government. Many of the things that mention God were actually added much much later. I think the Pledge of Allegiance was even said without "God" until the last 60 years or so.

yetti

you are correct, you had many questions not answered by some, including me. I apologize, I realized the error at 8:38pm after you asked for them to be answered. So you were in at 8:38pm, I accepted at 8:39pm. would you like to have a adult exchange of ideas, or would you like to do a dance over 1 minute?

Anyone want to address how long it took for the offer to be made! No, and knowbody will after I post this comment! And I knew you all would reacte just the way you have! I kept asking questions and none of you would answer! so I could say the same of you! I've spent 3 days trying to get you guys to answer some pretty cut and dry queastions and it's like crickets! So say what you want about me! At least I'm smart enough to know that no matter what I say or you say we are not going to get anywhere, so why waist anymore time! Chirp all you want, cause I've never been afraid to address anything anyone has said up to this point, and I'm not now! And to quote John On an earlier post, and knowone said it was a cop out, " I'm done"!

JOHN IT WAS ACTUALLY ONE MINUTE AFTER HE ASKED YOU OFFERED TO ANSWER. APPARENTLY HE DOESN'T MEAN WHAT HE SAY'S

To the last two of you who posted, I've asked several question on this blog and nobody has answered any of them! John refused to answer the ones I posted directly to him! With your logic I guess i'm Really right!

-- Posted by yeti on Mon, Jun 21, 2010, at 8:38 PM

I will answer any questions you ask if you will do the same for me? Deal

-- Posted by johnpaulcoleman on Mon, Jun 21, 2010, at 8:39 PM

S0 AT 8:38PM you wanted questions answered and now at 9:22 you don't? I would have guessed that.

so,... is the question, who makes the line? I'm trying to figure out what the question is here, will you re-word your question yeti?

lakerlady, did you ask a question? you both sound like the same person to me.

John you might want to clarify who you are trying to make that deal with.

I will answer any questions you ask if you will do the same for me? Deal

I wish everyone would admit that we ALL have a standard, a line, that we don't want others to cross! Which does limit a persons right to do just whatever they want! We all have a line! My point all along has been, who says MY line is right and who says YOURs is right? "someone" has to decide! I believe I'm right and you believe you are right! I'm willing to admit that I could be wrong! Anybody else willing to say that on here? I've been trying to get at the idea that we need to look at where we all get our standards! Nobody wants to look at that! Someone tell me in this post Right here what I've said that doesn't sound reasonable!

I will answer any questions you ask if you will do the same for me? Deal

lets settle down here, I do however think that this seems to be a reasonable question, if yeti wants to talk bible:

Yeti,

I will not argue the bible with you, I would however like to ask your sincere opinion about it. First of all are you a pastor? secondly, seriously, how does one explain/justify not wanting to legalize gay marriage due to the bible, when the bible has many "sins" that are legal. Also conversely should every "sin" be illegal? Please I would like this to be a real discussion?

Chevygleen, you accused me of supporting something before you knew how I stood on the subject! You made an assuption about me that is not true! Others were getting on me about, "why would anyone want to answer your question?" (because of my "delevery"!) so why would anyone want to answer your rediculous assumptions?!?

Yeti,

I will not argue the bible with you, I would however like to ask your sincere opinion about it. First of all are you a pastor? secondly, seriously, how does one explain/justify not wanting to legalize gay marriage due to the bible, when the bible has many "sins" that are legal. Also conversely should every "sin" be illegal? Please I would like this to be a real discussion?

I have accused you of nothing other than allowing many things the bible does not allow and not allow many things the bible does allow. Will you respond or just avoid?

1. the bible allows slavery are you for it?

2. the bible says women should not speak in church do you agree

3. the bible says adultry is a sin, should it be illegal?

I think a lot of people think that this is intrusive on their own sexuality, I know a lot of men who are homophobic! not so many women, some but not near the women as men, I kind of get the feeling that men feel a bit threatened? (by other men) I don't know, but it just seems that way. I really don't know why it should matter what sex you are married to, if you are married.

Pop YOU have to pull verses out of context to support homsexuality! Read any verse in context and it's plan enough a 1st grader can tell you the bible condemns it! I'm All for gay people haveing a partner if they want and what anyone does behind closed doors is thier business, but you can not say the bible condones it!

I agree lakermom, also women should not have been given the right to vote, what's next can my dog vote? Also slaves should not have been set free, what's next my dog has rights.

Chevygleen is quick to assume that someone is woman just because a previous post asks if that person is woman...do you take these assumptions so quickly in everything you do?

The SACRED vows of marriage should be between a man and a woman. Regardless of your views on homosexuality, marriage should be between a man and a woman and I feel that if gays are allowed to marry, others will soon want to marry...who's to say brothers and sisters being married wont be on another blog next year or five years from now...that doesn't sit right with me and niether does gay marriage

I'm sick and tired of people using the Bible whenever they want an excuse to prevent everyone from having access to the same rights. Have people forgotten that the Bible was used as the reason that women could not vote and black people had to stay in the back of the bus and only marry other black people? Because the Bible said so, people reasoned, was evidence enough that slavery and segregation should be allowed to continue. The Bible was even used in order to keep Jews out of swimming pools, for Christ's sake.

I think that people are so eager to use the Bible as justification for present prejudices that they forget to look at how the Bible has been used in past prejudices. No one now would seriously think to argue that boys are literally worth more than girls, even though they could cite Leviticus 27:6 as evidence: "And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver." Passages like this were used to defend sexist practices in the past. How about giving women the right to vote? No, protesters said. God wouldn't like that, He says so right here. What about granting civil rights to black people? No, God would disagree with that, the Bible tells us this. People would say exactly that to try to prevent events we now see as civil rights milestones.

But now it's suddenly in style for the Bible to be used as justification to deny rights to homosexuals. Here's what I say: If you think that the Bible's every word should be taken so literally that you cannot fathom granting equal rights to homosexuals, you'd better start following every other word of the Bible literally now, too. No more letting cattle graze with different breeds of cattle or wearing clothes made of more than one fabric. No more interacting with menstruating women (you don't want to become "unclean," do you?). If someone has cursed God or cheated on their spouse, their punishment needs to be death by stoning. Handicapped people may not approach God. Witches must be executed. You can sell your daughter to pay off your debts (Exodus 21 outlines the laws for ownership and the trading of slaves), since, after all, women are second-class citizens you can sell and pawn off to other men, just like you would your livestock.

So, here's my point: If we've decided that the Bible's stances on women and slavery are wrong and outdated, why do we insist that it's somehow applicable to homosexuals? Stop cherry-picking the Bible, people.

From the bible about women:

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

I assume yeti that you do not speak in church. I would also suggest that you ask a man before speaking about biblical matters as you have in this blog!

So chevygleen then you agree it should not be legal!

Finally you get it yeti, the government should not be in it at all. As of right now they will not let same sex marry, once they get out of it same sex will be able to get married. finally you have made some sense.

I don't think thats what he said at all yeti. he is asking wheather or not it can be done. and was quoting what POP said.

ok, lets just say that women still could not vote, Can you think for one moment what if you could not vote, would you want it to stay that way, because it is biblical, and the "moral" way or would you fight for your right to vote? I personally am glad I get to vote & I have the right, no it is not biblical that I can vote, but I'm glad I get to... the same with this topic, just because they are gay should it not be the same?

I'm glad you finally admitted that personal morals do have an affect on decisions made John! You say you don't want anyones religious views forced on you, well what about us who don't want same sex marriage forced on us! And since "all people are created equal" then I guess you are oppossed to abortian then? I like the idea that escapee had about the church handles marriage and the government handles civil unions or what ever you want to call it! Like they said, marriage is a religious instatution so the government should stay out of it! Especially with you yelling about seperation of church and state! Escapee made the best case against legalizing gay marriage by pointing out that marriage is a religious instatution! So the goverment has no business in it!

I agree with Yeti and strongly urge others to do the same...yetis can be extremely dangerous and quite ugly

I love cows...

I didn't read through all of the gibberish, but I do take issue when people say US law is based on the Ten Commandments or that our country was founded on Christian principles.

http://yalb.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/are...

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm

I guess you missed the point. It was that we chose not to use the bible any more in that case and most feel it was the right thing to do. I say we stick with that choice.

It seems pretty simple to me, long ago women could not vote because of biblical reasons. Is it that much different to treat gays the same way? I think the most telling thing in all of these comments was the fact that COW RANCHER said :

"Maybe if it was just a committment two people have with each other without affecting the country financially, then I wouldn't care."

Some may want to look at their views. When they are to the RIGHT of COW RANCHER you may want to reassess.

So John, legally its complicated! to me to be legal, every state in the US would need to accept gay marriages as they do all marriages. for that reason I beleive it is complicated.. For the sake of "benefits of marriage" (insurance, tax's, all the perks of being married) I beleive it should become legal, but I can not see every state doing this. afterall, didn't CA outlaw it? and why?

Ask eastern Greene county mom, I was addressing her comment!

Sorry, eastern Greene county mom, but true love also includes telling people when they are wrong! Jesus did it a lot! I'm bit sure how you missed the passages that say, "go and sin no more", and the part about jesus turning over tables in the temple because the religious establishment thought they could do whatever they wanted! Maybe you missed that! God is love and God is forgiving and merciful but he does not tolerate sin! By your belief system I gues anybody can do anything to anyone and it's ok, because God is love! There is no judgment and we all go to heaven because dag gone it "we all deserve it"! I wished that's how it worked!

I keep trying to tell you and you just don't get it. I do not want anyones morality used. Just the constitution. Not my line, not my religion, not my morality. All men are created equal, and religion should not be respected in terms of the law.

Eastern Greene Mom, what do you do with all the scriptures against himisexuality? They are black and white! "woe to those who call evil good and good evil"! If you are going to pick and choose which passages you want or think are true or not, how do you know which are true and which are not! I prefers to believe it all! Again you don't have to, but you can't say you follow the bible! You can't have it both ways!

The only thing I got out of this blog was that John should have never mentioned it, and Cow Rancher is an IDIOT...

Eastern Greene Mom, I don't know what god you serve or believe in, but I believe in the God of the Bible and that God says that homosexuality is a sin! Now you dint have to believe that, but you can't pick and chose the parts of the bible you want to believe or not because they agree or disagree with how you want to live! You can live however you want, I just get tired of people claiming to beleive in biblical Christianity and yet not believe the bible! One of these days YOU will be the one who stands before God and be surprised that he is a God who judges sin and the only thing that will matter is if Jesus is your savior!

And Amen on the blood trail!

To anyone that cares...or even those who don't...hell I don't care!

Since when did we start passing laws based on their "constitutionality?" If you think this is going on in present day Washington DC, then think again friend! We pass laws based on moral compasses every day Congress is in session. If every man was to be treated equally, then why am I in a higher tax bracket than others? Why do I have to have my photo on my drivers license and the amish person does not? Why would I have to follow President Obama's healthcare debacle when I will have to pay more because I already pay more for good health insurance? Where's the equal treatment there? Also, why would a minority or woman owned business get preferential treatment for government contracts before one owned by a white male? Answer that one will ya?

To argue that "This is a legal issue and does not involve moral or religious viewpoints" is hogwash....or since I land on the side of Cow Rancher.....bull$*%t! Those of you who want to take God out of every portion of our government and daily lives, because it "offends" you.....well, MY GOD is big enough to overcome all and shall one day again reign supreme. It's not too late to ask Him for forgiveness!

What I want is for government to stay out of my life and let me take care of myself. Along the way, I will help others that need it and do a much better job of it than Obama ever thought about. If you try to legislate everything (including gay marriage) pretty soon you won't stand for anything!

Over and out.

When asked about euthanasia, I say what do kids in China have to do with this?

Several posts in this thread make my head throb.

Yes folks you read it here first COWRANCHER SAID:

"Maybe if it was just a committment two people have with each other without affecting the country financially, then I wouldn't care"

Sure then he tries to double talk his way out of it. But it lets all of us know that even he knows the real story.

Chevygleen, John never answered my questions! Get on him!

for those of you that missed it COW RANCHER said this about gay marriage:

Maybe if it was just a committment two people have with each other without affecting the country financially, then I wouldn't care

Does your next breath depend on my response?

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I've already answered this.

If I need to keep repeating, I am going to leave the sandbox like John.

I'll answer one more time.

Question: Should gay marriage be legal?

Answer: No

At 10:12 I said:"Maybe if it was just a committment two people have with each other without affecting the country financially, then I wouldn't care. The trouble is that there are those "extremes" that push the envelope and demand social security benefits, medicare payments, etc.... I don't approve of their behavior, "as free people", when they abscond my (our) money, "as free people"."

Dude, let's just agree to disagree. By your agreeing to disagree with me, you agree that we should allow gay marriage and all the entitlements ment for a husband and wife should be inclusive.

okay what circumstances to you say yes to gay marriage?

how about a very very specific question i will bet he won't answer. COWRANCHER what if a law that only allowed people over 18 that passed a psyc exam that was approved by the supreme court that allowed same sex to marry? see no i took out all the crazy extremes. I'll bet you just can't answer it because if you say no gay marriage you instantly contradict the constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

Thanks for dragging this blog on until I could get home. :-) It appears that a couple of you are lobbying for gay marriage in Indiana. I could be wrong....I'm just saying. It also appears there is a lot of "wiki-searching and ciphering going on to make the number of gays seam large". Here is one for you, there are so many gays in America (using the un-researched number of nine million) that they could populate an area the size of 16 square miles in Manhattan (density), that's about the size of 5% of Greene County. (Isn't this a ridiculus way to say if gay marriage should or should not be legal?)

I am only on the computer briefly during the day/night and don't just sit there and wait for someone's response. OK , I'm here now so I'll be expecting a response as soon as you are done wiki-searching. Hurry up.........jeopardy theme is playing.......

Your interpretation of the Constitution is not the same as mine. I mention extremes because that is exactly where society will go and what the Supreme court considers in their interpretations of the Constitution and their dissenting opinions. You can't just throw out a hypothetical or ask a question (Should gay marriage be legal?)to be answered without considering the implications. Well, maybe some people can, but I can't.

Warning: Cow analogy ahead with the possibility of "fancy footwork". Please read the Constitution or change the channel if you can't handle analogies.

If you have ever watched the behavior of cows after entering a new pasture, then you will notice the first thing they do is to walk around the inside of the fence to determine their limits. People do the same thing when given freedom. I was raised in a time that consisted of rules and consequences when the rules were broken. When I broke a rule that was a "spanking offence, then I got a spanking. A wise man once told me that "whatever this generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace". This is true on this issue as well. If we tolerate more entitlement spending, then will our next generation be Marxists next.

There is no way that I could approve of gay marriage or any other fiscal irresponsibility given the current laws and re-distribution system that our government has. Maybe if it was just a committment two people have with each other without affecting the country financially, then I wouldn't care. The trouble is that there are those "extremes" that push the envelope and demand social security benefits, medicare payments, etc.... I don't approve of their behavior, "as free people", when they abscond my (our) money, "as free people".

So, to answer your question, under the current circumstances , "no".

I had some excellent roast beef for dinner tonight with my father. A perfect entre for any holiday. Don't forget tomorrow is Father's Day!

GO MEAT!!

Also I believe he was not intolerant of your position, just tired of having to keep repeating his. He is not using morality as a guidance, only the law. You just keep trying to insert religion/morality and this article was never about it.

One more thing John before I leave the playground! If you get gay marriage legalized, you ARE forcing your belief on others!

"The problem is Christianity is viewed as a religion.. it's not"

You may want to rephrase that one. Christianity is a religion that should become a lifestyle. which has nothing to do with this topic.

Yes sir.

The problem is Christianity is viewed as a religion.. it's not.. it's a lifestyle.

The day we Christians don't stand up is the day we go backwards as a Church. You're absolutely correct, however, to a point.

Anyone ever read Romans 1?

ONE MORE TIME. I am not using morality, I am following the constitution. My morality is not right for anyone except me. To exactly quote the constitution : "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

I am now done trying to get you to understand that I will not force my religion/morality on someone else.

While your position is clear:

"Okay John, no It shouldn't be legal! Why? Because I want my morality to be legislated and not theirs, Beacause someones morality will be legislated and I don't want it to be theirs!"

I am done

I think this sums up yeti's point:

Okay John, no It shouldn't be legal! Why? Because I want my morality to be legislated and not theirs, Beacause someones morality will be legislated and I don't want it to be theirs!

We get it Yeti enough said

FYI COW RANCHERS home page actually has a link to the Constitution, now that's hypocrisy.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

John you said it best: "I am only saying that freedom of religion also means freedom from religion."

This also is exactly why COW RANCHER will not respond to the topic.

Show me seperation of church and state in the constitution! You must not get that!

The standard I am using is the US constitution. Not Mine. If I were to use mine I would impose my religious values. I guess you just don't get that. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE, ALL MEN HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS. This issue is no different than when would would not allow Blacks to vote. To use a comparison of pediphillia or incest is just plain the extreme.

yeti said:

"a father wanting to marry a daughter! (Which isn't really all that extreme in society today"

There are close to nine million gays in America, that means the entire population of Wyoming, Vermont, North Dakota, Alaska, South Dakota, Delaware, Montana, Rode Island, Hawaii, and Maine COMBINED. To use giving gays rights in the same sentence as what you ask is offensive.

Now that i've answered your question John, answer mine that ive been asking through out this whole thing and noone will answer! You say "MY" Standard is way off and you want to go as far as letting gays get married! But then you don't want to go any farther than "Your" standard! For example (I know it's exstream) a father wanting to marry a daughter! (Which isn't really all that extreme in society today) Would you be willing to go past your standard of just same sex marriage and allow someone to marry their son or daughter or a pig? I know it's exteme, but answere the question!

I am not imposing anything on anyone. I vote just like you do and according to our constitution. The people that we vote for in this country make those decisions. There have been several referendums up for vote in many states dealing with this issues. Some have passed and some have not. I don't see how that is imposing since we are following the constitution.

[The constitution promises to treat all me with equal rights, (again within reason/no extremes).]

Whose reason are we using and what are the extremes? I don't believe the constituion is specific about those two areas and since most people say that the Bible doesn't specifically deal with this issue(which it does), then the constitution has the same problems.

I think the real reason I am for gay marriage is because same sex partners marrying doesn't make any difference to my life, my family, or my well-being. It also doesn't make any difference in anyone else's lives. It's not like they are going to come to your front door, ring the bell and say, "Na na na na we got married!" Let them commit themselves to each other already. What difference does it really make to you and your life? How is it going to affect how you live?? Aren't you going to keep doing what you do? Gay members of our society aren't going to just go away. They are going to be here and you are going to have to see them with their partners whether you want to or not. WHat difference does it make if they have rings on their fingers when you see them???

Chevy--so am I understanding you right in saying that everything goes whether you belive it is right or not? That goes against what actually happens in this country from top to bottom.

Good discussion today. I don't see how you can take the "right or wrong" part of this out of your question about whether it should be legal or not. Do not all of us make descions based on what we percieve to be right or wrong based on our own moral standards. If not, then we can all just say, "sure make it legal it doesn't effect me". If that is the true question then everyone should just put a one word answer on their post and be done with it.

That is not the way it works though, and it won't ever be when you are dealing with these type of social issues. There are strong feelings on both sides. If you ask the same question about whether we should grant amnesty to all illegal immigrants you would get the same type of answers and some of the people posting would be taking their swing at that with different viewpoints. Again, it comes down to what each person uses as a moral compass to make decisions whether they think this should be legal or not.

Gladly. Now watch how I do it. I will not talk about BP or a 30 year old marrying a 10 year old. I will not talk about taxes or any other fringe topic. I will not insult a reasonable discussion with an absurd: well what if, and then ask the extreme case. I believe that a consenting adult should be able to marry a consenting adult no matter what color, sex, creed, religion or any other reasonable common factors. I see clearly thru the old well what if a 100 year old man wants to marry a 1 day old baby argument. It was never the question or point. Cow Rancher, this whole topic is about should we discriminate against someone because we do not like who they choose. No one is remotely suggesting that anyone should be able to marry a goat, child, pig, house or any other extreme. I am not saying I feel it is a moral or a lifestyle that I would choose. I am only saying that freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. I am able to separate church and state. I am able to have religious views that I do not impose on others.

So Cow Rancher just to glean away some of the fancy footwork. I will ask a more precise question. Do you feel that a consenting adult should be able to marry another consenting adult? Please note this excludes any case of extreme age or crazy scenarios. Please note this is not a question of moral or biblical beliefs, it is only a question of legal and constitutional rights, which you speak of quite often. You now may answer a yes or no with an explanation or you can dance around with crazy what if's.

I guess Cow Rancher does not follow the Constitution.

"How about each person following the Constitution "

His words, I guess all men do not have the same rights. You only have the same rights if my Bible agrees with who you choose.

You have really shown hypocrisy here. I too think it is a sin. I also believe in separation of church and state.

I believe marriage is a covenant, before God, between a man and a woman.

Since God burned Sodom and Gomorrah for their sin of homosexuality, then I fall on the side of God.

Personally, I don't care what two adults do, but I certainly don't think it ought to be another excuse to take entitlements from the government.

America has enough problems now, we certainly don't need to extend health and death benefits to another segment of the population. The baby boomers are being given borrowed money from their grandchildren (and most don't care as long as they get "their share". Already, Social Security, Obamacare, Medicare are unfunded mandates that bring America's debt to over $109 TRILLION, thats $109,000,000,000,000.00 as of today.

Go to this site to see what you owe the government now,

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

I am a little weary that we are still being asked to give certain categories of people certain rights. How about ignoring the fact that a president is black, a illigal alien is in Linton, a woman is a politician from Alaska, a gay dude was supposed to provide oversite to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac from 2006-2008, a coach who shows favortism to their son or daughter, a person who wears black must be gothic, a cow rancher is so great looking (I had to throw that in).... How about each person following the Constitution in our Republic under God and accepting some personal accountability? We, the people, are exactly equal. We, the people, also must reap what we sow. We, ultimately, get what we deserve whether it is here on earth or after death. Free will is a gift that comes with consequences.

Quiet frankly, I don't care if our great socialist leader is black or white, man or woman, smart or stupid, goat or pig, gay or straight, I just wish he would stick something in that hole in the ocean and stop the oil leak. We used to be considered the most powerful nation in the world (I still think we are), surely we could help BP to plug that hole with an oversized drill bit or something.

Jesus did accept and love everyone, as I do! If you want to live with you're same sex partner you can! I don't care but the tolpic was sAme sex marriage And I think it's biblically wrong! That's my oppinion! Jesus accepted and loved everyone BUT he told those in sinful lifestyles to "go and sin no more"! Jesus always excepted the sinner but was never talerant of the sin!

Why not follow our constitution and have separation of church and state? Why not realize that we promised all humans/people equal rights? If we deny someone the right to marry another because we don't like whom they choose, is that any different than telling blacks they cannot marry whites? This whole pet/cow argument is exactly what this article is making fun of. We as a people are smart enough to be able to draw the line where all PEOPLE get equal rights.

Yeti- No, my value system is just fine. I checked it before I started typing. However, it does mean I have a bigger heart and the ability to love someone without any reservations. I feel so sorry for you that you cannot open your heart and your arms up fully and love everyone the same way. Jesus did...Jesus loved all the little children and animals. He loved them all the same and with his whole heart. You are the one with the messed up value system. I'm not the one trying to stop people from loving and committing to each other.

Can you recall anywhere in the Bible where Jesus said, "Nope I don't love you. I think you have a messed up value system or I don't love you the same." No, you read about him opening his arms to others of all faiths and colors. Same sex partners has been around since 1400's at least. Marie Antoinette had same sex partners as did her husband. It's not a new concept that just sprang from nowhere, dude.

Good gosh John you got a good one going here.

Whether an elected official believes strongly for or against gay marriage means VERY LITTLE to me when I enter the voting booth.

By the way, doesn't Barney Frank look exactly like someone whose name would be Barney Frank?

Polar bear, sorry if I offend you like I'm sure others will say I will, but if youR love for your dog Is the same as your love for your spouse , then that is messed up! My love for my wife is different than my love for my children! And the love for them is different than my love for my dog! Your value system is messed up if you love a pet the same! Polar bear, you must then make the arguement that I stated earlier, It must be ok to marry your pet then! Cause you love them the same!

cow rancher,

Nobody called you any names.

I said you were a hypocrite, but that's mostly because you are.

"Perhaps you would prefer a good rump roast for dinner. You are what you eat."

Sound familiar?

It took me about thirty seconds to find that gem, and several other denigrating quotes you've penned recently.

The practice of doing not of which you speak is commonly known as hypocrisy. Apparently, you are well versed.

Your rhetoric is tired and played out, however I do applaud your conviction. I'm also very appreciative of what you do in the field each and every day. An honest profession, sir.

After all, if God didn't want us to eat cows he wouldn't have made them out of steak.

so just sayin, you're ok with a father marrying his daughter as long as she's an consenting?

-- Posted by yeti on Fri, Jun 18, 2010, at 4:31 PM

*********

If she is a legal adult and wants to marry him, it is none of my business.

Should they have children? In my opinion, no.

However, there are lots and lots of people in this world that I don't think should reproduce.

Yeti - For the last time...Marriage is not about sexual needs or reproduction; it is about love and commitment. You don't need to be married to have sex or reproduce. And yes, I was comparing the love parents have for their children to gay couples loving each other because it's the same thing. Love, is love, is love whether it's the love I have for my dog, a parent, a friend, or a spouse. I love them all the same... with my heart. Gays have hearts too! They hurt just like you do and they love just like you do. They don't want to get married to have sex; they want to get married to be committed to each other as a couple and show all their families and friends how much they love each other.

Just for your information, I know many gay couples who have been together for longer than most of the heterosexual marriages in society today. Why shouldn't they be allowed to show their commitment to someone just like you? Gay marriage has nothing to do with the bible, sex or reproduction...it is about love and commitment. There is no form of unnatural love. So are you saying you married to reproduce and have sexual intercourse??? Because that's a sad reason to get married!!! I'm hoping you got married because you LOVED someone and wanted to be COMMITTED to them for the rest of your life.

FYI this article is not about the morality of gay marriage, only the legality.

What gave I said that would have given us Christians a bad rap? Sorry I didn't think that I was that offensive! And sometimes the truth can be offensive in and of itself! I never meant to be! I'd like you to share a point that I was way out in left field and I will appologize for it if I spoke out if turn!

I never said gay marriage would " lead to " marriage of a child or pet! I said, for sake of argument, who are we to say they can't!!! Who's moral standard are we going to use? That's all I was saying!

Pop, this is a discussion board where we discuss the issues! In person I would approach an individual differently than I would here in this discussion board! You assume a lot about me! I approach individuals with the love and compassion if Christ! Building relationships is the only way to earn the right to point out sin in anyones life, yours or mine! But this is a discussion board so we are discussing our beliefs! If you are offended then you are taking this discussion way to wrong or personal! I haven't been offended by any of the beliefs in here that differ from mine! The only thing that had bothered me was when I thought John was saying I hate gay people!

Pop, I deal with adultery, divorce, homeless, people in need, sick and on and on in my line of work everyday! And if I may say so I do a very good job! On these discussion sites it my understanding that you share your oppinions no matter how raw it is! If I've offended you I'm sorry that was not my intent! My intent was to have a rational debute among adults that is all!! You guys are taking this all to personal!

Yeti, Have you ever sat down and had any conversations with a Homosexual? Homeless person? Aids patient? Alcoholic? Prostitute? Adulterer? Divorcee? Do you care enough to get to know the reasons why a person is where they are at or do you care just enough to point out what is wrong?

Pointing out someones sins is a whole lot different than helping someone in need. Do you say something to someone who is cussing or drinking everytime you see it? Do you point out the faults of a person who is spending above their means? Neglecting a child? Where is the line when you stop pointing things out and start helping?

I think the approach is where we have to be careful. I make mistakes all the time and I try to do what it right, but even in the best case scenario I don't respond real well when someone points out my faults in a condescending way.

On the blood trail, I totally agree! Homosexuality is as much a sin as gluttony, murder or adultery! I'm a sinner too! Just a saved one! I'm no better than a gay person or anyone else, but if I truely believe that the gay lifestyle was a sin and said nothing, what kind of a person would I be! I'm a Christian because someone once pointed out that I had my own sun in my life! So John I hope you realize that my belief is not from a judgemental heart or that I hate gay people! It is far from that!

1. Can two men reproduce? No! It's not natural!

2. Government should not support any one religion! But there is no seperation of church and state in our constitution! And our laws ae based on the 10 commandment!

3. You miss my point! There are sick people who would want to marry their child or pet! BUT kid they "feel" it's okay, then who has the right to tell them they can't! My intent is to get you to ask yourself where does the "tolerance" stop and commen sence kick in?

Sorry but you sounded like you were including me in on those who hate gay people!

I'm sorry but you sure sounded like you were refurring to me and anyone who believed what I do h

You sir have made a judgment call to which you have no idea about what you are talking about. You do not know my heart or my mind! You are the one who is intolerant of my views. If someone wants to be homosexual. They can be that is fine. It comes out now that you are the one who is intolerant of other people's views. My arguments have not been over the top. We've been having a rational discussion and then you come along and come out and say that I hate gay people or people like me! that is an assumption that you should never make!

Polar bear, you're really going to compare the love of a father to his son and a mother to her daughter as the Same kind of love between a husband and a wife or even a gay couple? That is crazy! And by unatural I'm talking about the sexual side of the same sex couples! THAT s unatural!

I'd marry my dog; but she is a female and I am a female so that would make us gay too! At least she's faithful, loving AND I don't have to worry about her running off with somebody else since she's inside all the time. Just sayin'...

Yeti you said in earlier post that someone has to draw the line on morals. Apparently you only like the line that you draw?

Oh, I see, Pop, instigator474, and John Colman have a lock on moral truth and should decide who gets married and who doesn't! That makes sence!

Interesting blog.

"There are many that feel strongly against gay marriage. I on the other hand am quite sure that I will never gay marry someone. I seem to have my hands full with my own problems. Worrying about something that will not change my life sure sounds complicated."

I agree with you totally on this part. I have enough to worry about.

However I see you're only quite sure that you will never "gay marry". I find it more interesting that you are not positive. I admire your open mindedness that anything is possible.

One question Mr. Coleman, Have you ever been married?

John, are you sitting back chuckling yet at the comments? Blogs with these type of topics will never serve any purpose but to further divide. People on both sides of the extremes will dig their heels in and before long it will reduce itself to anything intellegent being said by either side.

adult! (sorry)

Anything that happens between 2 or more consenting adults is fine by me. I have no idea why they would want to get married, but more power to them if they do.

I say let them suffer like the rest of us!

cow rancher only wants the government to encroach on personal freedoms where he feels it's convenient. If government expansion and superfluous legislation suits cow rancher's agenda then he is ALL FOR IT.

His hypocrisy knows no bounds.

GO MEAT!

Nice Blog!