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Greene County, Indiana ~ Thursday, August 21, 2008
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Should we call America a Christian nation?
Posted Friday, May 9, 2008, at 7:48 AMRead comments | Respond | Email link | Next >>
We are in a major political season. Even if you were to try, you could not avoid the primary coverage on TV, the water cooler debates about the various candidates and the upcoming appeals for your vote in the primary and general elections.
One of the aspects that is alarming to me during seasons such as this is when someone speaks of America as a "Christian nation." Is it? Was it? Should it be? On all counts, the answer is no. Now don't start boiling the tar and plucking the geese. Although even those people who say they want it otherwise, would admit that the United States is not a Christian nation. They sometimes claim it once was and that it was founded to be such. Our country's founding fathers were, at best, Deists. They certainly did not envision a culture where religion would have privilege of place in public life. It would be permitted and protected as a personal right among free people. It would not, however, be the "established" or otherwise promoted or defined, or made compulsory by the government. You wouldn't want that. It seems to me that a Christian view of history and life in society would protest the idea of a state in which the unique features of Christian theology, lifestyle and worship were written into law. In the several instances where that has happened, it has not had a happy result. Spreading and impressing religion through force quickly becomes fanaticism and persecution -- crusades and Puritans are reminders. Would it not be a violation of the Golden Rule and the essence of God's word to create a culture in which persons who did not share Christian faith and values were required either to observe them or to show deference to them? If the shoe were on the other foot, would you want to live in a Muslim, Buddhist or atheistic culture and be required to observe or show deference to their ideologies? Of course not, The point of this is not to say that Christians should be disinterested in or uninvolved with politics. It is to say that we should be involved in the system as "salt" and "light" persons. We should serve the public good and protect the rights of others. We should be particularly sensitive to the weak, marginalized and minorities. America is not a Christian nation, but Christians should always be among the best citizens in any nation where they may happen to live. Whatever your political learning, be wary of anyone in this political season who seeks to manipulate you with religion. Look askance at any candidate who begins to use religion as a "political football." And turn a deaf ear to the fanatical souls from whatever quarter who say or imply their views are God's mandates. I want to live in a nation where Christians can live without persecution from any quarter. I want to live in a nation where Christianity is not hindered by governmental fiats and laws. That is what the constitution says. Today it seems our courts and government are infringing on those rights.
Larry grew up north of Calvertville on a farm and graduated from Worthington High School. He lives in Plainfield and can be reached at Goosecrick@aol.com or (317) 839-7656. Write him at 6860 Sunrise Drive, Plainfield, Innd., 46168. He has written five books. Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
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Excellent blog Larry. I am not sure I could have said it any better.
Amen.
Thank you.
Our founding fathers were Christian and by definition diests. They were not Buddhists, Muslims, or athiests.
Larry, you have made some inaccurate assumptions in your article.
First, our founding fathers did envision our nation as a Nation endowed by our Creator and for Christian morals to have privilage in public life. Our Constitution and judicial system were written with the Ten Commandments and the Magna Carta in mind. Despite what you believe, our American way of life is permeated with Christian morals and biblical reference.
It would be a violation of God's word to not show deference to God and the Lord Jesus Christ. To assume otherwise is to ignore God and his commandments.
I am grateful the shoe is not on the other foot. If it was, then America would not be America.
I agree that freedom of religion is important in our republic under God, but to suggest that America is not a Christian nation is to suggest that it is not. If that is your point, then I say to you that you are a denier of truth.
Also, for you or anyone to tell me what to consider or not consider in a political candidate is naive. I really don't think you have much to worry about with the three presidential candidates (using religion as a political footbal)as none of them seem to have a moral compass.
Finally, I agree with you that the courts and government are infringing on our rights.
We, as Americans, have seen nothing yet. The choices we are given are just different levels of socialists. If you think we have been infringed so far, just wait, by mid 2009, we will truly get what we (as a tolerant country) deserve. Chaos is about to become the norm.
If America was intended as a christian nation why is it not explicitly codified as such in the Constitution of the United States? Not even the Preamble makes mention of a deity.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Who did you secure the Blessings of Liberty from?
Even some new history text books say the Pilgrims gave thanks to the Indians for their food. The Pilgrims gave thanks to God.
The libs will try to take God and Christ out of everything.
Beware, the next movement is to take the way we keep time away from Christ's preeminance. The proper term for this year is 2008 A.D. (annos domini means "in the year of our Lord" in Latin), not 2008 A.C.E. (after the common era). Also, 100 years before Christ is 100 B.C. not 100 years B.C.E. (before common era).
These changes are very subtle but the left wing is promoting them as facts to your children in school. If history is not convenient for the educators then why not change history by re-writing it. Thank God for teachers who resist the nonsence and fill the gap.
Dewey would be so proud of the "modern" lies and humanism.
Good blog, Mr. V.
I've had enough P & R this week, so I'll not jump into this one.
I will say what scares me more, at this point in time anyway, is the ever growing sense of entitlement in the electorate, that the government can, and should, solve all our problems.
Now let me tippy-toe my way outta here.
In his classic book, "Nineteen Eighty-four", George Orwell stated that if you tell a lie often enough it will eventually become truth. The US was NOT founded on Christian ideals but on Enlightenment ideals. Europe had been ravaged by religious wars in the late sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries. When political stability had been restored, notably after the Peace of Westphalia and the English Civil War, an intellectual upheaval overturned the accepted belief that mysticism and revelation are the primary sources of knowledge and wisdom. The works of men who most influenced the thinking of the Founding Fathers such as Thomas Paine, Voltaire, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, and David Hume questioned and attacked the existing institutions of both Church and State.
Our Constitution makes no mention whatever of God. The omission was too obvious to have been anything but deliberate. When asked about that Alexander Hamilton responded that the new nation was, "not in need of foreign aid."
The Blessings of Liberty are your birth-right. You are born free and remain as such until you allow yourself to be subjigated by some external force. You are the master of your own destiny and have only yourself to blame if you lose your freedom.
In the eighty-five essays that make up The Federalist, God is mentioned only twice (both times by Madison, who uses the word, as Gore Vidal has remarked, in the "only Heaven knows" sense). In the Declaration of Independence, He gets two brief nods: a reference to "the Laws of Nature and Nature's God," and the famous line about men being "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights."
More blatant official references to a deity date from long after the founding period: "In God We Trust" did not appear on our currency until the Civil War, and "under God" was introduced into the Pledge of Allegiance during the McCarthy hysteria in 1954.
In 1797 the US Senate ratified UNANIMOUSLY and without debate The Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 of the treaty states, "...the United States...is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."
The Founding Fathers were not religious men and in fact warned against the evils of the priesthood. The historical epoch had afforded these men ample opportunity to observe the corruption to which established priesthoods were liable, as well as "the impious presumption of legislators and rulers," as Jefferson wrote, "civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time."
To suggest that George Orwell is an authority on truth is a deceiving mistruth. He was a fictional author.
While you seem to be well written, your point of veiw is exactly what America should avoid in a time of Bobbitt-Dewey curriculum development.
Our founding fathers were Christians. If they were reading your response I can imagine they would do one of two things: they would proceed to debate and convince you that your thoughts and words are inaccurate and your interpretation of their words should be apologized for or they might offer to duel with you to eliminate you from their frail nation.
Here are some quotes from some of our founding fathers (there are hundreds more, but you will not read them in today's history books:
William Bradford (author of the Mayflower Compact 1620),"Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one of another, covenant our selves together..."
He also said that the Pilgrims were seeking, "The great hope, and for the propagating and advancing the gospel of the kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of the world"
John Adams and John Hancock: "We recognize no sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!"
John Adams: "The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principales of Christianity." and on July 4th, "ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty." also, "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambiion, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. OUR CONSTITUTION WAS MADE ONLY FOR A MORAL AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE, IT IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ANY OTHER." Oct. 11, 1798
also, ""I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow spere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen," Dec. 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson
John Quincy Adams: " Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated returns on this day (the Fourth of July)? Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissoubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity?" 1837 delivered in a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Mass.
Charles Carroll-signer of the Declaration of Independence-"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure... are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."
Benjamin Franklin at the Constituional convention, Thursday, June 28, 1787-"God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel"
Alexander Hamilton as he began work with Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great: 1) Christianity 2) a Constitution formed under Christianity
at his death on July 12, 1804, Hamilton said, "I have tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy. Pray for me."
You must be right, these sure don't sound like Christians, do they?
A few more:
Patrick Henry (in his last will and testament): "This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed."
Patrick Henry also said on May 1765 speech to the House of Burgesses: "It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on Religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
John Jay: "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilage and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians fortheir rulers." Oct. 12, 1816
Thomas Jefferson: "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."
James Madison: in a proposal to make our nation into three branches quoted Isaiah 33:22 "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us."
Noah Webster in "Our Christian Heritage": "The Bible was America's basic textbook in all fields." and "Education is useless without the Bible."
The Liberty Bell inscription: "Proclaim liberty throughout the land and to all the inhabitants therof" Leviticus 25:10
Now just try to read these quotes and say without dishonesty that the Founding Fathers were not religious men.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the next time you are tempted to be deceived by the untruths of agnostics who enjoy changing America's history, remember these quotes. There are hundreds and thousands more quotes from the early 1600's through today of average and great Americans prooving that indeed America was founded by Christians who intended in our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution that we remain and promote our country as a Christian nation.
Our country was most definitely built on Christian principles or it would not say IN GOD WE TRUST on our currency. well said Green County Patriot
To debate on whether the USA is a Christian nation or not is pointless. Thanks to the First Amendment we have freedom of religion.
It just seems to me that it is always the Christians who are up in arms because they are afraid of change and possibly losing whatever imaginary power they believe they hold.
Correction: It is always the clueless who respond to blogs they believe is "pointless".
Hey GCP, I hear the Indiana State Fair is looking for people full of hot air to help fill the balloons for the race.
Well I will only comment on a few things here since it would take forever to touch on all of them. Good story by the way. I myself had come to know the savior JC(Jesus Christ) at some point a few yrs ago, I always had these words floating off the pages at me "seek the kingdom", "study thyself approved", "seek my face" so I began my journey. The deeper I got the more I found Pastors would just pat me on the shoulder and say "that is just the way it is my dear" with no answer to my questions. so I have found ask the Ruach Ha kodesh (Holy Spirit). The Bible is complex on it because it was written from the greek/latin translation and JC was a Jew and spoke hebrew/aramaic, so His true name is Yahshua which means salvation or YHWH saves. (by the way there is no "J" in the hebrew alphabet and never has been or is even today.) so mine name does not translate if I go into another country so why should my heavenly creators? I seeked and I found out, so I shall call Him by His true name.
There is so many words in the KJV that was taken from G/L and they are in error because of this, but I believe it was translated from G/L because hebrew is so difficult to translate over to English(example= we have 1 name for 1 item, hebrew can have up to 5, 6 or more names for 1 item) Moshiach means, anointed one, holy one, savior, messiah, for example.
When you read the KJV along with hebrew translations it is easier to understand. I am a believer in Yahshua Moshiach,immersed into the waters of death and resurrected up(baptism) and born again by the circumcision of my heart(changed, grafted in to the vine which is Israel for he shall return for His bride (Israel) and if you are a believer of Jesus, you are an Israelite.
Sorry for the input, if you are offended or freaked out per say, study thyself approved unto the father, not unto man. and do not believe the babbles (pass down from generations) of your fore fathers. SEEK AND YOU SHALL FIND>>>>
some websites to challenge you
www.yourarmstoisrael.org (Moshe Koniuchowsky)
www.emetministries.com (Daniel Rendelman)
www.abramaicfaith.com (Simon Atlaf)
Now on the political subject...study somemore!
Freemasons, ring a bell? OCCULT! secret societies. If you are a 31 degree or higher mason you know who you worship and it isnt God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. theirs is baphomet, a horned goat. yes, I know what I am talking about, I have studied this for some yrs. and was deceived myself. There is the shriners, scottish rites, knights of columbus, demolay, eastern stars, they are all part of that pyramid and majorityof people think they are just the "good ole boys" DECEPTION!!!!!
I have clearly seen their Indiana monitor...and you can go and research at Ephesians 5:11 it is a website there in Indiana exposing them,(www.ephesians511.com) they know first hand since they were in it themselves many years ex- worshipping masters, highest point you can get to in a degree...also Alex Jones is an excellant site for exposing the Freemasons and their connected brothers the Illuminati and skull and bones, and the Bohemian grove.
I believe Alex Jones is www.infowars.com
19 of our presidents to date were Freemasons and the main father of it here in America was George Washington. Our statue of Liberty came from freemasons. You cannot have one foot on God and the other on the world right? God hates secretiveness, God hates lukewarm (spew out of the ole mouth I believe it states) see I refuse to quote scripture because I do not have to prove myself unto man, I know the word of my father YHWH Elohim (Aleim) and still seek and study not only His word but the enemies tactics....
They have Wiccan christians now, and morman christians and gay christians, etc.... I am a BELIEVER because this is what Yahshua (Jesus Christ) called them himself.(oh, for you who do not know a Wicca/wiccan is a WITCH!)
and I have research your area there are over 1,300. active in the 47441 area code, that is that admit and are posted.
Freemasons? well, your entire town is almost runned by them, they are just hidden in the shadows of things. but are very $ powerful and scratch each others backs, beware of them do not join such an organization and remember they do not recruite because bad things dont have to recruite they just deceive those into it, good, recruites...
many blessing to you all and I pray you dont get angry about this post but get out there and study and research and be a voice and a hand to someone in need, plant a seed and help save some one from deception. Dont think you can be lukewarm. you either serve one God, you cannot serve 2 or more. sorry masons you are serving not the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. WAKE UP! Father I pray for someones eyes to open and research these things I have stated for themselves and for you father to send your Holy spirit to guide them and teach them with their studies, I ask these things in the name of Yahshua Moshiach, Amein.